If You’re Planning on Joining the Next Round of SB5 Protests, Take Heed (UPDATED)

UPDATE (06/30/2013): Karen has been kind enough to update her research, which I have put in a new post. Please direct your attention there instead of her for more up-to-date information.

UPDATE (06/29/2013): The bill numbers have been updated for the new special session. They are now HB2 and SB9. Thank you to eagle-eyed readers JohnE and KarenBailey for pointing this out in the comments.

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The following is reprinted with no permission at all awesome amounts of permission from Jamie Lynn Shelton Karen (via Evin Cooper):

The following is important information:

PLEASE READ THIS IN ITS ENTIRETY! IT’S LONG BUT IMPORTANT! When you go to this protest on Monday, PLEASE be informed and know the facts. Some of the media will attempt to make you look as stupid as possible, as if women are hysterical, emotional and totally unreasonable. As emotional an issue as this is for many of us, people are more apt to listen and take you seriously if you remain calm and logical in your arguments.

READ THE ACTUAL BILL (if you haven’t already) http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/831/billtext/html/SB00005H.htm

Beat the supporters of this bill at their own game and have your arguments ready as to why this bill is damaging to women.
a. Point one of the bill changes the time at which a woman can legally obtain an abortion from 24 to 20 weeks.
• YOU NEED TO KNOW that this provision is touted as being legitimate because of TOTALLY REFUTABLE evidence from only a handful of doctors that a fetus at 20 weeks can feel pain, and that there is substantial medical evidence THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE because pain receptors in the brain are not fully formed at 20 weeks of gestation.
• YOU ALSO NEED TO KNOW that the Supreme Court has established that a woman has a right to an abortion until the fetus is viable outside the womb, which is at the 24th week of pregnancy, and so this provision IS IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW.
• Please note that there IS a caveat in the bill allowing an exception that if after the 20 week mark the pregnancy is a threat to the life of the woman, and/or the fetus has serious health impairments, a doctor and woman can decide to terminate the pregnancy. So be careful NOT to use the argument about the safety of the woman and the health condition of the fetus as a reason to not pass the bill.

b. Point two of the bill involves restricting the dispensing of the abortion pill to licensed physicians only.
• WHY THIS IS DAMAGING TO WOMEN is because it would prohibit nurse practitioners and physicians assistants, many of whom run these clinics, from prescribing the drugs.
• This provision also limits the dispensation of the drugs only after an examination concludes that the fetus is 20 weeks or less in gestation and that the health of the mother and/or fetus is at stake. In other words, a woman seeking a purely elective abortion will not longer have access to the abortion pill and will have to undergo the surgical procedure.

c. Point three of the bill is the most concerning. This is the point requiring abortion clinics to upgrade their facilities to ambulatory surgical center standards (for information on what that means see this link http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/hfp/asc.shtm.)
• WHY THIS IS DAMAGING TO WOMEN is because only five of the current 42 clinics meet these standard.
• IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW that the bill gives a deadline of September 1, 2014 (about a year) for clinics to upgrade their facilities to meet these standards, but these upgrades are VERY costly.
• IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO KNOW that abortion providers already follow standard regulations and that both The Texas Medical Association and the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists indicate that the proposed standards are not necessary for performing safe abortions.

Point three ALSO requires that doctors performing abortions have admitting privileges at a hospital within a 30 mile radius of where the abortion is being performed.
• YOU NEED TO KNOW that most hospitals in Texas do not grant privileges to doctors who perform abortions due either to religious reasons or out of fear that they will become targets of protest. It is also a COMPLETELY moot point if the other part of the bill requiring clinics to upgrade their facilities takes effect because everything needed to ensure the safety of the woman WILL BE AVAILABLE AT THE UPGRADED FACILITY.
• This part of the bill is a very thinly veiled attempt to shut down all of the clinics in the state, and particularly ones that women in rural regions have access to. This puts the burden on the pregnant woman to not only have the money to pay for the abortion, but also the money and ability to travel great distances to obtain the services. ALSO REMEMBER these clinics provide other important services related to women’s health care and shutting them down will restrict access to those services as well.
• SO YOU CAN ARGUE THAT IF, as the proponents of this bill profess, this bill promotes the safety and well-being of the pregnant woman, then what are they willing to do to ensure that a.) the clinics have the ability and funding to upgrade their facilities, and b.) that hospitals will allow admitting privileges to doctors who perform abortions? If this were TRULY about the safety and well-being of the women, the state would set aside funds for clinics to be upgraded, and/or provide tax incentives for clinics that do upgrade their facilities. They would also be setting aside funding for MORE of these surgical facilities to be created to increase women’s access to services, and taking action to force hospitals to give admitting privileges to doctors who perform abortions.

IN CONCLUSION, the bigger issue of the War on Women of which this bill is but one battle is that a primarily rich, white, old, male legislature is determining what SHOULD be a decision between a doctor, a woman, and whatever deity in which a woman believes (if any). They are not in there discussing the man’s obligation and role in a woman’s pregnancy in the first place, men’s rights to Viagra, standards for safe surgical procedures for vasectomies or prostate cancer, rape prevention measures, or appropriate and realistic sex education to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

If they are OUR representatives in the Senate, then they should be REPRESENTING THE BELIEFS OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, and this poll indicates that a majority of CONSERVATIVE VOTERS in Texas do NOT support this bill. As such, the Senators are NOT representing the beliefs of their constituents. Here’s a link to the actual poll data: http://gqrr.com/articles/2013/06/20/texas-voters-oppose-governor-perry-s-omnibus-abortion-bill/ (footnote: the research group that conducted this poll states it is “committed to progressive goals, ideas, and leaders.” Take the validity of the poll results within that context. They did do a reasonable job at establishing a representative cross section of the Texas population based on political affiliation, had a good N (i.e. total number of people polled), and an adequate margin of error at +/- 4.)

Also, if you haven’t already, let your Senate representative know how you believe they should vote. If you already know s/he opposes this bill, still send him/her a message to encourage continued opposition to the bill. Follow this link to find out who represents you and their contact information http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members.htm

And finally, IF the bill passes, (and we HAVE to admit it very likely will), then focus your attention on WHAT WE CAN DO NEXT, such as finding non-profit funding to ensure the clinics can meet the upgrade standards within the time limit, putting pressure on hospitals to allow admitting privileges to doctors who perform abortions and on our legislators to ensure that this happens, mobilizing transportation programs to get women in rural areas to the clinics that remain open, and seeking legal representation to take the provisions of this bill to the courts to be overturned as was the case in states such as Arizona, Georgia, and Idaho. And VOTE in the next election to get legislators into office that DO represent our interests.

STAY STRONG. STAY INFORMED. FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT.

Photo credit: Via Wendy Motherfucking Davis on Facebook.

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  • KarenBailey

    I WROTE THIS! YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO SHARE! THANK YOU!!!

    • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

      Thank you!

  • Heather

    Please fix the first link to the bill

  • John E
    • KarenBailey

      when I check those, SB2 has to do with Charter Schools, and HB9 has to do with compensation of state agency executive staff???

      • John E

        I’m so sorry Karen. I mean SB9 and HB2.
        SB9: “Relating to distributing or prescribing abortion-inducing drugs; providing penalties.”
        HB2: “Relating to the regulation of abortion procedures, providers, and facilities; providing penalties.”

  • Bobbo

    Or, ya know, you could use any of several contraceptives currently available while having sex or, heaven forbid, keep your knees together until you’re ready to have a child. Or, as a last resort, put your child up for adoption…

    • Anne

      Not all women (or men, for that matter) have access to birth control. And do you really think it’s fair to preach to a woman that she can’t have sex unless she wants a child!? Not only is that ridiculous, but do you think many men have been told that? Lastly, adoption is wonderful but not the answer for every woman. She gets to decide what happens to her body.

      • Bobbo

        I think it’s fair to tell the man that if he doesn’t want a child, he should wrap it or keep it in his pants. That’s what my dad told me, that’s what I’ve told my son.
        “She gets to decide what happens to her body.” Great argument. She decided what would happen to her body when she had sex. Seriously. Want to have free sex? Then you have decided to get pregnant. Now be responsible and don’t murder your child.

        • Marty Holden

          Too bad SCOTUS doesn’t see it your way huh? To bad you can force your morality on others huh (which why you POS’s have to contort your laws to get around the rules)? You want to live in a theist State, go to Iran, I’m sure you’ll adapt just fine.

    • Buford

      Typically idiot Conservative logic… teach only abstinence instead of real sex education, then defund women’s health services like Planned Parenthood, then refer back to those things as what women should be using instead of getting abortions.

      • Bobbo

        Typically idiot Liberal logic…. teach only free sex instead of responsibility, then use taxpayer funds to pay for child-murdering health services like Planned Parenthood, then whine when you get pregnant. If the man ain’t got a wrapper, tell him to keep his pecker in his pants.

        • MamaSue

          “Wrappers” aren’t 100% effective, no children have been murdered only fetus’ which cannot survive outside the womb as outlined in Roe v. Wade which is the law in the US and Planned Parenthood is so much more than the small percentage of services provided for ending a pregnancy. Oh, and taxpayer funds are paying for mammograms, well-woman visits/screening, family planning, STD education, etc.. Would you rather women be uninformed?

          • Bobbo

            Hey MammaSue – if I commit a crime and, in the process, cause the death of a fetus which could not survive outside of the womb (say by killing the mother), how many murders would I be charged with? If I killed the mother, I would be charged with 2 murders. Even though one was an abortion. That’s liberal logic for you.
            And you can get all of those other services at other clinics.

          • Karlew

            What other clinics? And not all states count the fetus as a separate entity in the case of the murder of the mother or the assault of the mother that causes the death of the fetus.

          • Khamlet

            Bob, there are no “other” clinics…where in the world do you live? Lala land?

          • Marty Holden

            Ahh but
            here’s the rub, you were committing a crime. An Actual Crime, not one you BELIEVE is a crime, and THAT is the difference. You lose that one little mac.

            You don’t have much in the way of critical thinking skills do you? You’re
            already intellectually challenged, so you’d probably better learn some because
            with be buddy I could out debate you on my worst day.
            From what I’ve seen, you’ve never had to debate or argue your way through
            anything; you just try to bully, throw hyperbole, and consort with fallacy.

            I’ll happily stoop, no belly crawl at your level just to make sure you know you’re out gunned and out classed at every level you could possibly muster. I eat kitty litter minds like
            you for lunch, 20-30 times a week, and they all skulk away defeated or
            exhausted. That includes Religious Arguments. I do it all day, every day and I
            enjoy ripping your faith logic to pieces until all you have left is the raw
            bloody corpse of your fear in your own pitiful existence and impotence.

            You can’t win. Leave or be prepared with college level, vetted and peer reviewed
            research, because I am.

            To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell’s heart, I stab at thee; For hate’s
            sake, I spit my last breath at thee

            Bring it.
            And I haven’t even starting getting foul yet.

          • WikiComo

            Marty, where oh where can I find these arguments of yours?

          • WikiComo

            But when I was pregnant I couldn’t drive in the carpool lane… so, where is the logic there?

        • Lacey

          I’m not going to lower myself to your level and engage in a debate with you, because obviously we will never agree despite any logic that is thrown out. I would just like to point out that, if you were paying attention, a law passed in Texas that prevents any state money to fund abortion in any way, shape, or form. It’s now up to the woman who elects to exercise her CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to seek an abortion to pay for it herself, and/or find an abortion support fund to assist her. That has absolutely nothing to do with your precious taxpayer money (which is ALSO not doing much for the education or healthcare systems, since they were both also cut by millions). Planned Parenthood, FYI, provides preventative services for women and men, such as contraceptives, STD tests, mammograms, pap smears, and the like. So, to cut their funding will ultimately make it harder for people to obtain birth control, and keep an eye on their sexual health (resulting in more unwanted pregnancies and the spread of diseases).

          • Bobbo

            Lacey – I agree with you. Please don’t lower yourself to my level. Because then you would realize that you have to be responsible for your actions. And if you choose to have sex, then you (and the guy) are responsible for anything that happens. And if you think that murdering children is the responsible thing to do, then I guess you’re a sicker person than I am.

          • Lacey

            Being responsible would be using said contraceptives that are readily available from Pllanned Parenthood and like organizations. Now, say you use your contraceptives and (oops) they fail, (I know, in your world that never happens, right?) Now, you surely aren’t putting up the argument that sex’s only purpose is procreation? If that was the case, Viagra is a sin since you don’t need a hard d*ck to impregnate anyone. As humans, we have it in our biological makeup to have sex for pleasure. Dolphins and baboons are the only other animals that do so. If for some reason a woman falls pregnant (the way she got herself in that state is none of anybody’s business), tas well as probably the life of this baby that you forced her to have, which she did not want to begin with (I know, she shouldn’t have had sex, right? make sure all the husbands tell their wives they better not engage in marital relations unless they want babies. Ha, as if that will happen). The state of child welfare in Texas today is a grave disappointment being that we are one of the richest states in the nation. They only care about the “baby” (i.e. fetus) until it passes through the birth canal. After that, yer screwed! There are thousands of children already waiting to be adopted (and as a woman who has placed a child for adoption, I’d like to think I know a little about that subject) and in the mean time, most of them are held in deplorable conditions in group homes and abused in foster care. And nobody who suggests adoption thinks of the way that is going to affect the life of that mother. I know i will never be the same. But go ahead and tell me more about how you know whats best for the masses.

          • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

            (Pssst…)

          • KarenBailey

            hey David, could you either cross out or remove the second point under the abortion pill issue about forcing women to have the surgical procedure? (see the thread between myself, A Gaar, and Suzanne Lander). Pretty sure A Gaar has interpreted it correctly (as it was written in SB5 anyway), and Suzanne suggested we amend it so folks will (hopefully) focus on the other more salient points. I know it might be too late to stop the train completely, but I’d rather try than not address it at all… thank you!!!

          • Bobbo says good night. You win

            Yep. You’re right. Killing babies is so much better than letting them interfere with your right to have sex. You win. Good night.

          • Lacey

            Sweet dreams :)

          • Marty Holden

            Lacey, add some individual chimpanzees, but most especially Bonobos. They are VERY sexual and even engage in oral stimulation as well as use sex to circumvent conflicts. That being sad Billy Bobbo is speaking from a religious perspective, which simply means he is suceptible to fallacious “reasoning”, which is to none whatsoever. Bobbo, how many women have you raped including date rape (if she isn’t doing you back and just laying there you might be raping her, pig), how many children have you fathered (probably more than you know eh little piggy?), how many children have you adopted (your behavior suggests none, you simply don’t have the capacity for compassion)? Keep your dick in your pants, you’re polluting the Gene pool and we don’t need any more of you little piggies running around crapping on every and sticking your nose in avery vagina you can find.

          • prolife for life

            My contraceptives failed. I didn’t murder my child. It wasn’t his fault the pharmaceutical companies aren’t perfect. My CHOICE was made when I chose to have sex.

          • WikiComo

            Sometimes… women are forced to have sex. You know? And sometimes, women are in relationships that aren’t really healthy. But they don’t realize it at the time. They think they can love him through the bad times. But when she is 2 months pregnant and he’s beating her up, she realizes that giving birth will be a life sentence for both her and the child.
            You made a choice that you will have to live with, sacrifices and all. And so did she.
            You can be as judgmental as you want. But at the end of the day, at the end of her life and yours, you each get to live with the choices you make.
            But you don’t get to make choices for one another.

          • WikiComo

            The thing is…. it doesn’t matter what you think Bobbo. It’s not your body, not your baby, not your life. Fu(k off and get the hell away from my thighs, my vagina, my uterus, my heart, my mind, my decision.
            If you care so much about all of the women and children go help them. Put your time and energy into the ones that are breathing. They are the ones that need help, love, attention.
            The women that have had abortions and moved on with their lives are doing just fine.
            And the terminated fetuses… they are a lost cause. Gone. No argument is bringing them back.
            But there are plenty of living, breathing unwanted children that need you to fight for them. Fight for their rights and their potential.

          • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

            Have you noticed that it seems like it’s always guys who make the over-the-top “close your legs and don’t murder” type of argument? I just find that interesting.

          • Lacey

            Indeed, even though it seldom applies to the ones spouting the nonsense.

          • Scott

            Lacey, it is not nonsense and of course it all applies to everyone. What you really object to is the idea of personal responsibility for choices. We cannot escape the consequences of our choices, we can only mask them, such as in killing the life of a baby in the womb. Those of us that advocate for the babies in the womb are really saying that it is time for all to become responsible and accept the consequences of poor choices. The baby does not deserve to die just because it’s mother and father want pleasure with no consequences.

          • prolife for life

            I am a woman who uses that argument. I didn’t have sex until I was at a point in my life that I was willing to accept ALL the responsibilities that came with it, including the possibility of a child. It’s not really an “over-the-top” argument, but rather a very sensible one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/debi.prather Debi Prather

            I hope your life works so smoothly that you will always be ready and welcoming to a pregnancy. Let me tell you: birth control methods sometimes fail. Spouses depart or die or become disabled. Health – physical and mental – can fail. You may some day have a family facing all kinds of challenges that you cannot foresee, or in hubris think will never happen to you, because you’re so special and do everything responsibly. Now if you are one who is sure that God will never give you more than you can handle, more power to you. May your faith remain strong despite what life throws at you. But allow others their choices, as they will be the ones who have to live out the decision.

          • prolife for life

            Just because I have that stance does not mean I am so naive as to think life will always be cherries and everything will work as planned. As a matter of fact, my life has not worked at all as planned. I actually have had TWO unplanned pregnancies (one I learned of on my honeymoon, the other I just birthed 6 weeks ago,) and had been taking the pill with one, so I REALLY do understand how life can throw curve balls. I have CHOSEN to put my dreams and ambitions on hold while I raise these children and create a loving family environment with their father. There have been many times when I think of how my life would be “easier” without children, but no amount of “easier” in my life would be worth the sacrifice of their lives.

          • Jess

            “I have CHOSEN to put my dreams and ambitions on hold while I raise these
            children and create a loving family environment with their father.”

            It’s a lucky thing you got knocked up by a guy who was willing to not just hang around, but who can even pay all your bills while you stay at home. I know a number of women who don’t have that luxury…

          • Scott

            Jess, I think you know how a woman “gets knocked up”. It is not something that just happens to a woman, she is very much involved with the process. Let’s forget the worn out arguments of rape and incest. Those cases are a very, very small portion of the number of abortions each year. Most abortions are done on women who were not raped, but were very much involved in the choice to have sexual intercourse. As a result of their choice, they conceived a life that is just as significant as their own.

          • Lacey

            You would be the minority. That is just not the way things usually go in the world today. It would be great if we lived in an idealistic society where everyone did the right thing and nobody ever made mistakes. However, we do not live in that world. We live in reality. Not everyone has your strength. It would be great if everything in the world went just as planned. It DOESN’T. People die every day, morality has become a rare occurrence, and bad things HAPPEN. I don’t believe that a woman who made a mistake (and please remember, a lot of the women who have abortions are in monogamous relationships, they are not all whores as you would like to believe) should have to just “live with it” to teach her a lesson about responsibility. Not only is it going to negatively impact her life, and her partners, but it is definitely going to impact the child. Adoption doesn’t work for everyone, and there are thousands of kids who are still waiting to be adopted (while they’re housed in group and foster homes where a lot of them are being abused and neglected. Look up those statistics and you’ll be shocked). The laws and the Bible have NOTHING to do with one another. Religion has no place in politics. We live in the modern world, where things go wrong and people screw up. No amount of laws will change that. We should just make drugs and rape illegal too….Oh wait, they are, aren’t they? And it still happens EVERY SINGLE DAY.

          • prolife for life

            Please do not place a biased assumption upon me, nothing I ever said implied that I believe all women who receive abortions are whores. I know abortions are sought by many different women for many different reasons. Also, nothing I have stated has based my stance in religion or the Bible. My belief that someone should wait to have sex (both male and female) until they are ready to accept all responsibilities that come with sex (including illness, pregnancy, etc.) is based upon the fact that I believe ALL people should be responsible for ALL their actions. We live in an entirely unaccountable society and are raising an even more unaccountable generation with our constant excusing and bail-outs. The government doesn’t have to be responsible, corporate America doesn’t have to be responsible, parents don’t have to be responsible… it goes on and on. Society as a whole just passes the buck or waits for someone to excuse the responsibilities for some reason or another. Our actions have consequences, some good, some bad; if we are not willing to accept the consequences of our actions, we should not partake in those actions, whatever they may be.

          • Lacey

            I apologize for assuming anything of you. I have grown weary of “arguing with a fence post” as my grandmother used to call it, so I am going to stop here. The bottom line is that abortion is already a protected right, and it is still legal, regardless of the restrictive bills they are trying to pass. If you’re fighting the fight of “abortion is wrong,” you’ve already lost that battle, therefore it isn’t anything to argue about. You don’t like abortion, don’t have one. If the woman standing next to you wants to do so, that is none of anybody’s business. Doesn’t affect you or anyone except that woman and her family. This country is all about freedom…or its supposed to be…and abortion is a freedom we all have. Just because you and many others believe its wrong doesn’t mean it will ever go anywhere. I doubt there is anything I can say to convince you or your fellow “pro-lifers” that you are wrong, just as there’s nothing you can do to make me think you are right. The end.

          • allison

            “abortion is a freedom we all have” is a very sad statement to be throwing around as pridefully and flippantly as you do. while it is true to say abortion is a freedom we have, it is a perplexing phenomenon, when many (not all) unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion are preventable. preventable with choice being a focus BEFORE sex and not after. choice for real education about your body (and not just birth control) choice for birth control, choice for abstinence, choice in understanding when you are fertile and shouldn’t be having sex and realizing how your body works and why, choice for responsibility of the action of sex – realizing its actual purpose is to procreate, so as with everything risky, proceed with caution and the list of CHOICES to focus on prior to sex could go on and on. the pro-choice movement has a lot of blood on their hands – no successful effort seems to be made to focus on actual choice before sex (when women have the most power in the situation), but just protecting the desperate choice of what to do after. if the pro-choice movement put as much time, effort, organization and money towards actually preventing unwanted pregnancies, there might be fewer of them. the movement has experienced EPIC failure with the prevention of unwanted pregnancies since roe v wade (which has led to millions of abortions), and i realize now after reading your posts and responses, they are not doing a good job of raising the next generation when the idea that “abortion is a freedom we all have” is said with such pride – it’s such a disturbing thing to have pride in the destruction of something, whether you think it a zygote, fetus, or baby, or think it does or doesn’t feel pain, or should or shouldn’t be aborted after 20 weeks – abortion is complete destruction, and a violent act against a women’s body in a natural state. it’s a freedom that should be taken seriously and with a heavy heart of how to prevent them altogether, on all fronts. and before you assume anything – i support a women’s right to choose, and i hope for a day when the pro-choice movement actually decides to be pro-active about choice before sex instead of re-active in the aftermath, as they are now.

          • Lacey

            Even though you stated that you’ve read my previous posts, your own post seems to contradict that. The reason I made this statement is because the forefront of the debate here has become more about the fact that folks believe abortion is wrong, immoral, sinful, bad, murder, whatever their individual feeling may be on the subject, when that is really beside the point, being that abortion is already legal. This bill does not make abortion illegal, therefore that stance has absolutely nothing to do with the subject here. I have stated several times that I believe children/teens need to be educated on SAFE sex and PREVENTATIVE measures to reduce the number of abortions that are even needed, rather than teaching abstinence, which only leads to more unwanted pregnancy and disease. I am in no way advocating that we should have no regard for the risks of sexual activity, and just do whatever we want because “we can always just get an abortion afterwards.” I will defend to the death the right to do so if all else fails, though. It is not my place to judge anybody’s reason for wanting an abortion. Of course we should all be taking measures to try and make sure we’re not put in that position. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, and I know I take those measures. I respect everything you are saying, and your right to say it, and I’m sorry if you misunderstand my position on this issue.

          • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

            Education and contraception are the most effect ways of reducing the number of abortions. The pro-choice movement, by and large, also advocates for comprehensive sex education and the availability of contraception. It is the people who are most likely to be aligned with the “pro-life” movement who are instrumental in opposing those things. Aside from your attribution of these ills to the pro-choice side, I agree with you that the focus should be on education and contraception, but that’s not what’s happening. In Texas, where abstinence education is the norm and politicians are reluctant (to say the least) to do anything to improve access to contraception, it is impossible to lay blame on the pro-choice side. It’s the “pro-lifers'” turn to get with the program.

          • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

            Possibly the best comment on this thread. Thank you.

          • Lacey

            Thanks, David.

          • Teresa P

            Other people have sex because they want to be close with their partners. It is not just to create a life only. Are you going to tell people who are in a long term relationship or marriage not to have sex unless they want a child? If that is what you think sex is all about then I feel sorry for you. I think sex is so much more than that.

          • prolife for life

            I am not saying the only reason for sex is to have a child, but I am saying the only way a child is created is through sex. One of the possible outcomes of sex is pregnancy. You don’t actually have to “want” to be pregnant to have sex and conceive, but you do have to be open to the possibility. A child should not have to sacrifice his/her life because you don’t want to be responsible for the outcomes of your actions.

          • Teresa P

            What you are saying is that if I am with someone and we both dont want a child, I should not have sex just in case I become pregnant. Im sorry but no. You try staying away from someone you love and not touch them. Not going to happen. Birth control is not 100%. Accidents happen. The thing is you are imposing your beliefs on others who may not have the same beliefs as you. Some people think that life start at conception, some dont. If you dont want an abortion then dont have one. You choose to bring a child into this world thats fine. Thats your choice. I hope you can take care of that child. If someone chooses to have an abortion because they are not ready for a child for what ever their reason may be or maybe for medical reasons that is between them and their doctor. It is no one else’s business. This issue about abortion is about a womans choice. Her right to become a mother when she is ready and if she chooses not to be a mother. These laws that are coming in from all these state are taking our rights away. Because of an accident or it can be a planned pregnancy but it needs to be terminated because of a medical reason, The states are taking womens rights, choices away from us. They are forcing us into having children but they are also not protecting us from being fired for being pregnant, having good paying jobs (women are still paid less then men) child care is expensive. The state also want to cut funding to welfare. This leaves a lot of low income women in a serious financial bind. When a woman chooses to abort she is actually thinking about her and that childs future. There probably is not a good future for both of them so that is why she aborts. You are thinking about the fetus and not the problems the woman is enduring during and after pregnancy. Then she and the child is on their own and you dont care how she cares for that child.

          • Stephanie Garmon

            Why is a woman having to pay for her abortion…she has the right to choose…unacceptable? I didn’t make her pregnant. I am a tax payer…why do I have to pay for her abortion? I am pro choice. I happen to choice life over murder. Quit relying on the friggin’ government! With choice comes responsibility.

          • Lacey

            Stephanie, I wasn’t saying that a woman having to pay for her abortion was unacceptable. The subject was brought up because here, and in many other places, I have seen people make the ignorant statement that their “taxpayer money” is paying for womens’ abortions. This is untrue. As most of us know full well, a law was passed that dictates that state funds cannot pay for abortion services. That was the only reason for me making that statement. It irritates me that people who try to take a stance against something are so uninformed about what it is they’re even angry about to begin with. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

          • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

            The issue of public funding of reproductive health services is a red herring in this context. Perhaps this is Stephanie’s way of shifting the discussion to ground on which she feel more familiar, but it has nothing to do with the issues at hand here in Texas.

            Put another way: Point of Order. Ms. Garmon’s remarks are not germane.

          • Teresa P

            Your tax money does not pay for abortions. Its called the Hyde amendment. Your tax money does pay for when this woman cant pay for the abortion and is forced to have a child and then ends up on welfare. Now this is where your tax money comes in. You will be paying for that child for the next 18 years

          • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

            This bill has absolutely nothing to do with you or the government paying for abortions. Get your facts straight before you comment.

          • prolife for life

            Multiple reports have shown that far more of the dollars spent by Planned Parenthood have been used to provide abortions than dollars spent on contraceptives, STD tests, etc. Also, there are multiple Planned Parenthood “educational” tools geared toward young children which heavily push sexual activities. They are breeding the next generation of their profits. Planned Parenthood is not in the business of “helping” women, they are in the business of sex and benefiting highly from the consequences that occur from treating it so casually.

          • Lacey

            Have you ever been to PP? If so, please share with me the things you saw and heard there. And please site the “reports” you’re referring to. The law that was passed prevents any funding for abortion from state resources. Women who elect to get an abortion have to come up with the money on their own. Also, let me know how that “no sex” method of teaching has benefited us? I was a child who was taught that method, I later became a teen mother myself, as did many of my class mates. Texas has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country, and coincidentally, it is also in the bible belt, where these kind of teachings are prevalent. Teaching kids that abstinence is the way has proven time and time again to be a failed endeavor. It’s simply not logical. People are GOING to have sex. They need to know how to do it safely. This is not the 50’s.

          • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

            When I was pregnant with my first son, I went to a Planned Parenthood in order to confirm the pregnancy, as they had a sliding fee scale & I wanted to hear it from the mouth of a medical professional. Not once did I feel any pressure to abort my pregnancy. In fact, I don’t even remember being asked if I wanted council on my “options”. I’m sure, had I asked, information would have been made available to me, but I didn’t, so they didn’t. What they DID offer me was information about STDs, testing, prenatal care, & some free condoms.

            After my son was born I tried taking the pill &, well, I’m really bad with remembering to take pills. So eventually I decided to look in to other options. I again went to a Planned Parenthood, where I received a general check up, STD screening, council regarding various types of birth control, & my first Depo Provera shot. Again, no evidence of PP trying to sexualize me or any kids. No one encouraging me to just get pregnant so I can come by & abort it later. Just the good ol’ women’s health & reproductive services I came to responsibly ask for.

            And I know countless others with similar stories… regularly receiving well woman & birth control at PP, but not abortions. Services that help them to be healthy & responsible, in an effort to KEEP them from needing abortion services. By imposing such outlandish restrictions on PP & other similar clinics, women who utilize their well woman & birth control services will be left with little or no options. These women go there because they can’t afford to go elsewhere. How will restricting their access to these services help with your “fight for the unborn”?

          • M. Clark

            Absolutely untrue – 1% of total Planned Parenthood clinics’ service fees are from abortion (with many of those clinics not providing abortion services at all). Family planning REDUCES abortion. And for me the bottom line is that when abortion is illegal or inaccessible, women die. Abortions have been done always, and always will be done whether safe or not. If the state is truly interested in women’s safety and health, they would not have cut hundreds of millions of dollars from the Women’s Health Program; instead they would invest in providing access to family planning and sex ed. Oh, and I challenge you to show any PP materials that “heavily push” sex – another lie.

          • minime13

            When I was younger, and worked in an office that didn’t offer insurance because it was not deemed necessary (the men were sales reps from a larger company that had insurance coverage, and the remaining employees were women and it was just assumed that they would be covered by their husbands’ plans), and went to Planned Parenthood quite often for women’s health check-ups. I almost always met with insults from protesters outside the clinic, and was treated with the same respect inside the clinic as I was finally insured and able to afford doctor’s visits for women’s health outside of the clinic.

            Official (even Government) reports refute your claims. Would you be willing to cite these examples, though, for the sake of discussion?

        • Karlew

          And then the cons whine when you have the baby because you are a welfare queen and sponging off the government

    • KarenBailey

      Or, ya know, men could take equal responsibility for their role in the whole pregnancy process, and be sure to wear condoms or get a vasectomy to avoid putting a woman in this position. Or, heaven forbid, keep their dicks in their pants until their ready to have a child. And, as an aside, in those instances of rape, they could be sure to respect a woman when she says NO, even if her clothes are off. Oh this tiresome old sexist view that a woman is not only responsible for her behavior and choices but also a man’s. *sigh*

      • bobbo

        Karen, see my replies below. Rape is different.

        • bobbo

          Or above. Wherever the comment system decided to put them.

      • Scott

        Karen, I agree with what you have said. Men should be responsible and
        held responsible when they are a partner in the conception of life. We
        try as a society with child support requirements, etc., but much more
        could be done.

        Unfortunately, only one person can carry the child and that devolves upon women, whether we like it or not. If it is something that makes you angry, then shake your fist at God. We don’t have a choice in how the created order is laid out. We are just born into it, a man or a woman. And because women have the responsibility of child bearing, it devolves upon them to be more responsible in the area of sex. Men get off easy, it is true, but it is only because of biology. And given our biology, women should not expect men to be responsible in the absence of a commitment. This is why marriage and waiting on sexual intercourse until marriage is so important. It is the marriage contract and vow that protects the woman and makes the man responsible. Unfortunately, our young women aren’t taught this any more. But it is to women’s detriment that the idea of responsibility and marriage has been abandoned.

    • bobbo

      And men? Be responsible and wrap your package. If you ain’t got a wrapper, keep it in your pants. If you knock the girl up, then pay your child support. Be responsible.

      If you gotta get some and don’t care if she says no, then you should get your nuts cut off. And have to pay child support.

      • Marty Holden

        how many unwanted children are you willing to adopt? And to what level of hubris gives you the belief you have a right to say?

      • Marty Holden

        I also see you haven’t addressed your earlier cognitive errors in asserting that the taxpayer has to pay for it, or there are plenty of clinics, which they don’t and haven’t in some time and there won’t be any clinics after the fact. Address them or STFU.

    • Karlew

      So I am a married woman who taxes birth control and does not want a child. Should I have to keep my knees together? A large number of women who terminate their pregnancies are married or in long term relationships. It’s not all young single women.

      And you are an ass.

      • Scott

        Karlew, resorting to name calling is the lowest form of debate. Usually, the ones losing are the ones that resort to name calling.

        The issue in your argument above is not about economic class or marital status, it is about the life of the child in the womb. Every woman knows that when they have intercourse with a man, there is a chance of getting pregnant. It seems that your argument gives into the idea that personal pleasure (sex when I want it) trumps everything, even, in this case, the life of another human being that may be inconveniently conceived as a result of the pleasure.

    • Guest

      There is no 100% form of contraception not even tubal ligation or vasectomy.

      Also, you can have sex with your knees together and legs closed.

      I believe the term is keep your clothes on until you’re ready to have a child.

      Adoption doesn’t take away the issues of going through pregnancy and childbirth.

  • Deborah Campbell
  • Jamie

    Whoever said they wrote this, please put your name to it….I am Jamie Shelton and I did not write this (as much a I would like to take credit for this excellently written piece) I simply shared it from a friend through FB. I am happy that so many people have seen it, taken note and are preparing to speak eloquently and intelligently about these issues. I just found out that it was on this blog and want to give credit where credit is due. Thanks and keep up the good fight. Jamie Shelton

    • KarenBailey

      Hi Jamie. It was me. I posted it originally on the Kill the Bill Volume 2 facebook event page (my fb name is Karen Elaine), and people ran with it from there. When I posted “it was me,” for whatever reason, I was posted as “guest” even though I created an account at that moment… weird. I am not seeking any kind of public credit for it, I just want to inspire people to get informed. I’ll be scouring through the new bills this weekend to see if any of this info is no longer valid. will keep you posted! THANK YOU for getting the word out! xo

      • Aliza

        Thank you Karen for giving us the lay version to the bill and some reference points!

  • Nonnie

    Please note that there is NO EXCEPTION FOR VICTIMS OF RAPE OR INCEST. This is an excellent argument, as many survivors, especially CHILDREN often do not realize they are pregnant/confirm a pregnancy within the time frame allowed. This bill would, for example, make a child carry to term a pregnancy resulting from her brother raping her. Do we put her through that type of psychological damage and social shame so someone can adopt that baby?
    I believe abortions should be available to any woman that needs them, without apology. I believe they should be safe and rare. I believe we need to grow up and teach comprehensive sex education in schools.

    • kristymom

      SO then get it done before five months. There is no restriction for that.

  • A Gaar

    Hi there! Just a question, as I’m going to the rally monday… In your overview of the bill, you state that only physicians will be able to give out the abortion pill, and only then after the woman has been examined and found to be less than 20 weeks pregnant. I found all of that in the text of the actual bill. But you go on to say that the pill can only be prescribed if the health woman and/or fetus is at stake. Where is this in the text of the bill? I can’t seem to find it. Thanks in advance!

    • KarenBailey

      See the third paragraph of this article. It appears this was an earlier wording of the bill and was amended by the time SB5 was filed: http://watchdogwire.com/texas/2013/05/29/texas-seeks-to-restrict-abortion-pills/

      In any event, it may be a moot point, as we need to read the texts of the two NEW bills SB9 and HB2 to see if/how they’ve reworded it.

    • KarenBailey

      ALSO, I think one of the primary reasons they separated this provision about the abortion pill into another bill (SB9) from the rest of the bill (HB2) is because of this vague wording that was being interpreted in multiple ways. As I said, we’ll read the new bills and provide updates…

      • Suzanne Lander

        You ought to edit that in the above text so that people don’t use that argument. It may turn out to be a valid argument, but until we’re sure we shouldn’t use it.

        • KarenBailey

          agreed. we’ll need David to cross it out until we can provide a full update. at this point so many people have seen it though I’m not sure we can get the word out to everyone. it would be a shame for all the other valid points to be overlooked because of one misunderstanding due to vague wording in the bill. the other points are so much more poignant and salient, so I would hope people would stick to those anyway. here’s hoping… let those around you who have seen it know, the word will hopefully spread…

          • kristymom

            You have no valid points here. You are trying to kill babies, and fighting very reasonable regulations. The fact that you are fighting the reasonable regulations shows the true agenda here.

    • KarenBailey

      and P.S. – EXCELLENT FACT CHECKING!!! YOU ROCK!

    • kristymom

      That is because it is NOT in the text of the bill, it is more hysteria. The only abortion pill restriction is that prescribers follow FDA standards currently in place. Just because some misguided politicians in Washington decided they wanted to make it available to children DID NOT change the FDA standard.

  • plainsmart

    Power to TX women & their allies. You have 100’s of thousands supporting you from around the country. In solidarity – Lincoln, NE

    • Scott

      Yes, power to Texas women, with the exception of those still in the womb.

      • kristymom

        Amen Scott. This is ridiculous how so many foreigners think they have the right to influence our decisions here in the Lone Star State!

        • Ned Stark

          Absolutely! Protect the rights of only those we choose to! All of you should be ashamed of yourself. I’m 100% against abortion, but if all of your mothers had taken that option, the world would definitely be a better place.

  • Samara Chalott

    Is Bobo guys still around? Well, in case he is, and in case this hasn’t been said.. Whether I am a 17 year old who was raped by my abusive father or a soon to be married 22 year old, it is my decision on what to do with my vagina and how to do it. Lets put it in perspective. I become pregnant at 17 years old and decide to keep my baby. This baby becomes my priority and becomes more important than my education.

    • Samara Chalott

      My boyfriend and I drop out of high school because now we have a baby to provide for, but we can only find low wage paying jobs because we don’t even have our high school diploma. Although we try to provide the best for our baby, we can only do so much. We find ourselves asking for WIC and other government aid that most taxpayers, including YOU, complain about.

      • Samara Chalott

        Where does all of this lead, you may ask? To an endless line of poverty and ignorance. The child is limited to very little resources, including higher education because his parents cannot afford it. The child may even end up following his parents shoes. You may say I’m overreacting, but the reality is that this is the world that we live in, the world that some have built by electing officials who are there only for the power, not the people.

        • Teresa P

          Your right but the republicans also want to cut those services also

          • Ned Stark

            That is an excellent way to over simplify. Republicans don’t want to cut those services. As Ronald Reagan said, The purpose of welfare is to eliminate the need for itself. The welfare programs in place right now are not doing a good job at that. I support helping the needy, I oppose funding the lazy.

        • Scott

          Samara, you have a baby and seem to be saying that you wished you had killed it when you had the chance. I ask you to consider your argument and take it to its logical conclusion. Look in your baby’s eyes and ask yourself “can I take a knife and slit your throat?” That is what happens in an abortion. Your baby is torn apart by the abortionist and evacuated. The only difference is that you don’t have to look it in the eyes while the deed is done.

          You tell a sad story, but it doesn’t have to be. You have a family. Together, you can provide for your child and yourselves. The trouble with government aid is that, while it may help in the short term, it makes us lazy. You are in danger of becoming a permanent part of the dependent class. You don’t have to. Forget the government assistance and plan together, as a family, how you are going to put food on your table and a roof over your head. In the end, you will have something. But if you continue down the path of being a dependent, you will always be a whiner and will have nothing.

        • kristymom

          So you would prefer to have killed your child? My husband and I worked different shifts to provide for ours until we were able to get better jobs. WIC and food stamps and Medicaid are all readily available in Texas, although you would be far better off to continue your education so you can both get good jobs and support your family yourselves.

    • kristymom

      Yes, it is your decision what to do with your vagina. If you choose to allow someone in to your vagina, then you should probably protect yourself against pregnancy if you do not wish to be pregnant. If someone is raped and chooses to kill the child for the father’s crime, then she will need to do so before five months.

  • Upsilon

    be sure you post the text of the new bill SB 9 http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/832/billtext/html/SB00009I.htm. HB 2 does not have its text online at yet

    • Upsilon

      Oh my bad, I see that in the first paragraph it’s linked to the new bills, but further down the page, it still directs folks to read SB 5. I’m sure the language is nearly identical, but maybe not

  • radsenior

    Who is right – the “Right?” – Who is the judge? Why does a man have the “right!”…excellent questions not answered…

    ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iD97OVJ4PNw#at=134 )

  • Manu

    Terrific post.I would like to add that I disagree that discussing the health of the mother is a moot point. The bill excludes psycological/ mental injury to the mother not even if it causes her suicide

    • kristymom

      She can still kill her baby until five months. If five months longer makes her suicidal then she probably needed to get some mental health help, not murder her child.

      • feeling sorrier than i already

        but its ok to kill our adult children when we send them to fight for the rich huh?

  • Stephanie Garmon

    As a woman, I want the abortion clinic I choose to be up to ambulatory standards; I want my drugs prescribed by a licensed physician/practitioner….I want to know that there is a doctor with privileges at a hospital within 30 miles available. I also would probably choose to abort before five months. This is not a bill against womens’ health. The only response I have to the statement about brain receptors not being ‘fully’ formed at 20 weeks is partially true…however, neither are the breasts. If we are truly concerned about womens’ health, we need to get together and work to get the monies to make these clinics truly safe for women. Why would we want to settle for anything less?

    • KarenBailey

      I hear you Stephanie. However, as the post specifies, there won’t BE any clinics left to bring up to ambulatory standards (standards which the Texas Medical Association and the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists say are not necessary to perform safe abortions as the clinics already comply with existing regulations) because most hospitals won’t give admitting privileges to doctors who perform abortions. And where are the provisions in the bill to ensure that if these bills become law, the government will do its part to ensure funding to upgrade the clinics AND require hospitals to give admitting privileges to doctors? There aren’t any! In addition, upgrading the facilities makes admitting a woman to a hospital unnecessary because the equipment and services a hospital would provide in the unlikely event a woman would need to be admitted will already be available in the upgraded facility. This is a double whammy in the bill intended to close ALL clinics, because even if you get your clinic upgraded to an ambulatory surgical facility, it is highly likely the doctor will not have admitting privileges. See how they’re trying to get us from both sides??? In addition, Nurse Practitioners and Physician’s Assistants are all supervised by licensed physicians. There is NO REASON they should not be able to prescribe these drugs because it is still the licensed physician’s license on the line, and they would not allow a Nurse Prac or a PA to prescribe anything that would jeopardize their license. This is just one more way the bill is limiting a woman’s options. And who do you think will end up footing the bill if the clinics pay for these (unnecessary) upgrades (assuming the doctor gets admitting privileges)? The women receiving services there, that’s who, AGAIN limiting access, especially to those living in poverty. The government is imposing regulations without providing the means for those affected to be in compliance with the regulations. So you want these things and don’t want to settle for less, but you won’t have access to ANY of these things AT ALL if this bill is passed. As for the pain receptors, the bulk of the scientific research says they are not fully formed at 20 weeks. Don’t know how else to convince you of that.

      • KarenBailey

        and one more thing… a realistic compromise (though I still think unnecessary) is to make the upgrading of the facility and the admitting privileges an EITHER/OR scenario, rather than requiring compliance with BOTH provisions. More clinics would have a chance at remaining open. Obviously the woman’s safety is not the intention of the bill or of those who support it; the intention is to unilaterally restrict access to services and ultimately ban abortion in the state altogether.

    • Lacey

      Also, an important thing to remember is that the ACOG and Medical Board have denounced this bill, stating that it is unnecessary and will do more harm than good. These are people who HAVE to put the safety of patients at the top of their priority list, without any religious or personal agenda behind it. It is obvious, as long as you aren’t one of the sheeple that the conservatives have gotten under their spell, that there is a hidden agenda at work to pass these bills. Anybody with the ability to do some independent thinking and research can see that. You can’t just believe what they tell you. They can’t even give direct answers themselves that have any actual facts behind them, and showed that they are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get it passed. Perry is most forthcoming about his desire to ban abortion in Texas, and this is just one of the many ways that he and his constituents are trying to do that.

    • Nathalie

      A friend’s parents’ clinic in Austin would be one of the clinics to be closed if the bill passes and it is extremely safe. They have been in business for many years, performing both abortions and deliveries (her dad delivered my sister)!

    • Stephen McDonald

      Are you even of age? You look pretty old…

    • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

      That’s wonderful that YOU would want all of those things for YOURSELF, “as a woman.” And you most definitely should have the RIGHT to CHOOSE those things for YOURSELF, “as a woman.” Hell, I know when I was facing increased problems from Adenomyosis & Endometriosis & knew that I would likely require surgery, I wanted only the best, most qualified doctor. I wanted the doctor I was going to consult with to also be the one licensed to perform my surgery. I wanted the best possible surgeon, best facility, best team. So I did my homework & sought out precisely that. Isn’t the internet a wonderful thing? It puts all this useful information at our fingertips so that we can make informed CHOICES, on our own, without anyone else forcing us to do differently.

    • youmustbejoking

      There is nothing that says anything done in any of the clinics that are currently operating is unsafe. There are many procedures done in the doctors offices or clinics that are not full surgical centers. Doctors have medical histories of patients in order to know if they can safely undergo the scheduled procedure in the type of facility they are in. There are rarely complications that require any other extensive care. In many rural areas, the women that utilize many of the clinics don’t have other options. They also generally get other health care in most of the clinics that is not readily available to them elsewhere.
      If people don’t have a hospital within 30 miles of their home, should the government require a hospital to be built? After all, many of us have gone home from day surgery after having had full anesthesia, to recuperate at home. I myself have had several major surgeries, including when I have been mostly non-ambulatory- and have been home within hours of coming out of anesthesia. The doctors have never required I be within 30 miles of a hospital in order to have those day surgeries and go home. Abortions do not use full anesthesia as day surgery centers do. So why should they have to have the full facilities that a day surgery unit would have? If it isn’t safe to not have a hospital within 30 miles after an abortion, why shouldn’t the same be required after a vasectomy? They actually make incisions in a vasectomy. Why do they allow day surgeries if someone doesn’t live within a certain distance of the hospital? The fact is, this legislation is not really about the health of women; it is about controlling women’s reproductive health and choices. Something the government should not do.

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  • Tara

    A useful post on understanding when pain receptors develop in a fetus. http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/fetal-pain-the-facts-hr-1797-and-the-repercussions/

    • KarenBailey

      great resource!!! thank you for posting!

  • MoveOutOfDarkness

    I’m a father of several children. I pay $2000 a month child support. This is probably more than most of you claiming that men are not at all responsible for the children even make. I have a vasectomy. I spend as much time as the state will allow with my children. You don’t make a baby alone girls, the man should have as much right as you do to decide for or against an abortion. Yes a man should be held responsible for a child born to this world, as should the mother. Stop killing babies. A one day old fetus is a human with a soul. I believe in quantum soul theory. Look it up. Abortion is a dark path of murder. I am sickened by the concept of abortion. I’d rather pay more taxes to state controlled adoption facilities. Brave new world. Don’t hide murder behind progress.

    • Teresa P

      Im glad that you are doing what you are supposed to do after having children but alot of men dont. I raised my 2 children by myself with no childsupport. I also talked with him when I got pregnant. He wanted the children and said that he would be their. Well he wasnt. No one has the right to tell a women what to do. She has to worry about how she will raise the child if chooses to keep the baby. She has to worry about going to doctor appointments, worry about getting fired from her job because she’s pregnant. Plus all the risk’s she is taking just from being pregnant. This is a womans body and life. She will chose what she wants to do with it. No one has the right to tell her what to do.

      • MoveOufOfDarkness

        Did you sue for child support? Isn’t it illegal to be fired for getting pregnant? It’s not only a woman’s body and life, it is also the unborn child’s life. It should be a joint decision between mother and father what to “do with it”. If the father bails out, then he is a wretched loser, sue for child support. If you are in the right he will be responsible for court costs. I love women. I respect and work with women every day. I would never infringe on any woman’s rights. Women are wonderful and kick ass in every way, deserve all the respect for working hard, being good mothers, fighting for our country. What I have a problem with is killing babies. This isn’t about women’s rights, it’s about the rights of an unborn child which is a human being from day 1.

        • Teresa P

          There’s a court order. Nobody enforces it. I tried for years. Gave up on it. And yes women still get fired for being pregnant. They dont use that as the reason they will find another reason to fire the woman. I have heard about it. Walmart has been sued. Thats the only one I can think of right now, probably because they are well known.

    • youmustbejoking

      You are free to feel as wish, but you should not get to decide everyone else has to agree with you or live under your belief system. There are many who disagree with you. Of course, I am amazed at the numbers in the GOP who are fighting against birth control coverage under insurance when birth control availability lowers the numbers of unwanted pregnancy. Seems to be a win-win to provide more readily available birth control and the proper education to use it, which results in fewer unwanted/dangerous pregnancies

  • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

    It should also be noted that admitting privileges simply means that a doctor is considered to be on staff at that particular hospital & therefore has the right to admit a patient for procedure(s) in that hospital. If, during the course of an outpatient surgical procedure, of any type, a physician deems a patient to need a level of care that cannot be provided within their clinic, that patient can easily be transported to a hospital via ambulance & taken to the ER, where I promise you they will be admitted by the ER doctor on staff. The physician performing the abortion does not have to be the admitting physician.

    • KarenBailey

      Twelfth paragraph: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/texas-gop-passes-anti-abortion-omnibus-bill-dems-seek-delay.php

      This bill WOULD require that the doctor performing the abortion have admitting privileges, and it would be considered a misdemeanor if they perform the abortion without active admitting privileges (per SB5 section 171.0031(b)).

      • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

        You missed my point completely! I will try to break it down into simpler context for you:

        Having admitting privileges does not make anything “safer” (which is what they’re trying to say this whole thing is all about). I am not saying that the bill does not require the doc have admitting privileges. I am saying that having privileges is completely irrelevant to the safety of women & that alone proves that it’s just another tactic to make abortion services unavailable, since they can’t make them illegal. In other words, there’s no real basis for that section of the bill to even exist.

        • KarenBailey

          oh. so we were agreeing! hahaha! i’m so on the defensive right now. my bad! xo

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  • KarenBailey

    The text of HB2 is STILL not available for us to read. why do I get the feeling that this is on purpose???

  • KarenBailey

    HEY Y’ALL! A wonderful fact-checker has pointed out that the issue mentioned in the post about the pill being dispensed ONLY to a woman in danger or a fetus with severe abnormalities is no longer valid… the wording was removed by the time SB5 came to the Senate and is NO LONGER in SB9. A BETTER MORE SALIENT ARGUMENT WOULD BE “Nurse Practitioners and Physician’s Assistants are all supervised by licensed physicians. There is NO REASON they should not be able to prescribe these drugs because it is still the licensed physician’s license on the line, and they would not allow a NP or a PA to prescribe anything that would jeopardize their license. This is just one more way the bill is limiting a woman’s options. It also prevents a loophole about the admitting privileges of a doctor (as discussed under point 3) because a NP or PA could dispense the pill instead of a doctor having to perform a surgical procedure.”

    I know the train has left the building, but get the word out if you can!!! MUCHOS GRACIAS!!!

    • KarenBailey

      THANKS TO FACT CHECKER A GAAR AND SUZANNE LANDER’S SUGGESTION TO AMEND!!! GO FACT CHECKERS GO!!!

    • kristymom

      Except you forgot that the bill only requires that the pill be administered under FDA regulations. Your fight is not in Texas for that one.

  • Guest2

    Can someone fact check if current guidelines in Texas are gestational age or time since conception? They are not the same thing and the two weeks matters given how restrictive things already are. Read the new bill carefully for this.

    “• WHY THIS IS DAMAGING TO WOMEN is because it would prohibit nurse practitioners and physicians assistants, many of whom run these clinics, from prescribing the drugs.”

    I’m not sure this is accurate. A NP or PA with prescribing rights practices under the supervision of a physician, in legal terms they are physician orders and the supervising physician has legal responsibility. I do not think the ability for a NP or PA to prescribe is in question.

    This is not a good talking point. Suggesting anything less than a medical doctor is in charge of these clinics is going to support claims that the Bill is trying to protect women’s health.

    • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

      Gestational age, per SB9

    • KarenBailey

      YEP YEP YEP. We have been trying to change that part. It was based on wording from an earlier version of the bill that actually didn’t make it into SB5 that went before the Senate. a more salient argument we’d like to put in instead is the very point you make, plus a little more: “Nurse Practitioners and Physician’s Assistants are all supervised by licensed physicians. There is NO REASON they should not be able to prescribe these drugs because it is still the licensed physician’s license on the line, and they would not allow a NP or a PA to prescribe anything that would jeopardize their license. This is just one more way the bill is limiting a woman’s options. It also prevents a loophole about the admitting privileges of a doctor (as discussed under point 3) because a NP or PA could dispense the pill instead of a doctor having to perform a surgical procedure.”

      Sadly I know the train has left the station… hopefully people will focus in on the other arguments. GET THE WORD OUT IF YOU CAN!!!

    • KarenBailey

      it’s been updated on another post in this blog. thank you!!!

  • TheMoreTheMurrier

    Huge thanks to all for this info and the helpful analysis. A few questions:
    1. I have huge concerns over the supposed exceptions clauses concerning risk to the mother or serious complications in the fetus. Who decides? What if doctors disagree?
    2. A question: how many of the existing 42 sites even have a hospital within 30 miles? Are any of the docs operating more than 30 miles from a hospital?
    3. Hasn’t the Supreme Court struck down two state’s 20-week rules already? And doesn’t that make the proposed legislation fiscally irresponsible, since it will cost the state tons of tax dollars to defend?

    • KarenBailey

      1. great question. as far as I know, it’s medical opinion of treating doctor. like with anything, you can always seek a second opinion.
      2. I haven’t been able to research this; but even if there IS a hospital in 30 miles, chances are they won’t allow admitting privileges. would be FAB if someone could take this on, would provide us with great info. I’m too swamped right now…
      3. YES. and YES. I think they are hoping to actually USE that argument about cost to tax payers when it gets taken to court. and it WILL get taken to court.

      AWE SOME analytical thinking about all the far reaching implications and relevant issues. LOVE.

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  • Kelly Avant

    Hi! This is a great
    article with a lot of important facts.
    It’s important to recognize that this bill will have incredibly
    disproportionate effects on low-income women.
    Wealthy women have had options to get safe abortions before Roe v. Wade
    and will continue to have those options if Rick Perry decides to create an
    illegal bill limiting the rights of women.

    This bill is not about women’s health because the
    complications that arise with continuing a pregnancy, especially if one doesn’t
    have the means to do so, are much more damaging and life-threatening than
    having an abortion or taking the abortion pill.
    Surely we wouldn’t suggest having all pregnant women stay within 30
    miles of a hospital just-in-case? Taking
    the abortion pill causes the same symptoms of a heavy period. Should all women on their periods be forced
    into surgical centers? Upgraded
    facilities are not necessary they are simply a thinly veiled attempt to close
    abortion providers around the state.

    This bill is above all an issue of social equality. It wouldn’t force every abortion provider to
    close, just all of the providers outside of our major cities. That’s a problem because Texas is a big place
    with a huge population of low-income women.
    Because of incredibly restrictive laws already in place, those women
    would have to make not one, but two trips to this clinic. The first trip would include a painful,
    invasive and unnecessary vaginal ultrasound and then 24 hours later to have the
    procedure. They would have to take off
    work, pay for childcare, for a hotel, for transportation. They would have to actually pay for the
    services, which would increase significantly in price because the cost to
    perform legally would be so much higher.

    For many people who support the bill, this doesn’t seem that
    outlandish. But it would be a huge and
    likely impossible feat for women living in rural communities, victims of
    domestic violence, poor women, young women, mentally ill or low-IQ women, women
    without transportation, women facing any opposition at home, limiting anyone
    but the most privileged members of our society.
    Wendy Davis understands that because she, unlike almost every politician
    supporting the bill, has experienced poverty.
    This bill won’t end abortion, it will continue a tradition of oppression
    we have struggled against.

    I think we should stop imposing restrictions on the members
    of our society who need the most support.
    It’s limiting to upward mobility, it’s economically unsustainable and
    it’s void of justice. We can’t continue
    to privilege wealthy members of our society over others. Seriously.
    We can’t. There’s the principle
    of ‘equality under the law’ and this isn’t it.

    Abortion is not the ideal, but this is not the way to prevent
    it. We need to provide access to doctors,
    education, birth control options and teach men to be responsible with their
    sexuality. We need to provide options
    for women to choose motherhood with support from the government and their
    employers. Choosing motherhood shouldn’t
    mean choosing to live in poverty.

    If this bill passes we will see the prominence of unsafe,
    illegal abortions. Before Roe v. Wade
    50% of maternal deaths were attributed to unsafe abortion procedures. Legal abortion saves lives. Women will die for this bill passed in the
    name of women’s health. We cannot allow
    that to happen.

    Texas laws surrounding abortion: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/

    Implications of legal abortions: http://www.now.org/issues/abortion/roe30/beforeafter.html

  • Kelly Avant

    If this bill passes we will see the prominence of unsafe,
    illegal abortions. Before Roe v. Wade
    50% of maternal deaths were attributed to unsafe abortion procedures. Legal abortion saves lives. Women will die for this bill passed in the
    name of women’s health. We cannot allow
    that to happen.

    Implications of legal abortions: http://www.now.org/issues/abortion/roe30/beforeafter.html

    • Peek a Boo

      Half The Humans That Go Into An Abortion Clinic Are Killed. If Abortion Is That Dangerous, Women Need To Stop Seeking Them: Pregnancy Is Much Safer At Those Odds.
      i’m Not Interested In Making It Safe For People To Kill Innocent Humans.

    • Ned Stark

      If you’re going to start quoting sources, try to use less biased sources. Quoting the National Organization for Women doesn’t prove anything other than how feminist you think you are. Having said that, the statistics on that page are unlikely to be accurate, as their is no annotation and the range of 200,000 to 1.2 million is a ridiculous margin of error. That’s like me saying that Gun Owners of America released a study claiming 100% of liberals are slightly retarded. Which is of course true, but you get my point.

  • http://www.afetishforhair.com/ Lori Scarmardo

    Text of HB2 is STILL unavailable…. :-/

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  • minime13

    In addition to any legislation being introduced to try to block these bills, is there any consideration being given to proposing that the 3 separate distinctions of the bill be placed in their own respective bills? It sounds like, with the introduction of SB9, this may partially be happening. Would there be a chance the each part of the bill could be challenged and possibly overturned if they were separated? It seems like the most extreme cuts would be in the ambulatory surgical center standards, and that would have a better chance of being overturned if not grouped in with the 20 week ban (which can already be challenged in courts if passed).

    • KarenBailey

      I think you are on to something with the separation of SB9 from HB2. I know any part of a bill can be contested in court, doesn’t have to be the whole kit-n-caboodle. but in order to get anything passed, all parts of the bill would go into effect. my understanding is that part of the session is determining compromises, amending the bill, and trying to get everyone to agree on it… I need more info on that to better understand that process. Anyone know?

  • KarenBailey

    The critical thinking going on in this thread right now is SO UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME. this is EXACTLY what I was hoping would happen. that it will make a difference in the actual passage of the bill(s) is probably unlikely, but we will be ready for the legal battles to come and have a chance of being taken seriously in the media to continue to garner support. and it will hopefully send these lawmakers the message that we ARE paying attention and will take the time to see through their bullshit. thank you everyone. you’ve restored my faith in the power of the people, and that people do care about what’s going on in the political arena.

    • http://davidcwells.com/ David C. Wells

      I can’t keep track of all the comments anymore. Thank you for all your work on this!!!

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  • Theresa

    No, I DEFINITELY WILL use the argument about the safety of the woman and the health condition of the fetus as a reason to NOT pass the bill!! (re ” • Please note that there IS a caveat in the bill allowing an exception that if after the 20 week mark the pregnancy is a threat to the life of the woman, and/or the fetus has serious health impairments, a doctor and woman can decide to terminate the pregnancy. So be careful NOT to use the argument about the safety of the woman and the health condition of the fetus as a reason to not pass the bill.”)

    If the bill doesn’t set a clear legal standard for what constitutes “serious health impairments of the fetus”, then it’s not clear what impairments, under the law, are covered by the caveat and which ones aren’t (i.e. whether the abortion by the proposed law is legal or not). Last Sunday night (6/23/13), Rep. Donna Howard (I believe it was her. So much has happened since then) argued this point about the legal standard for severe fetal abnormalities, i.e. That the bill did not clearly define the legal terms of what would constitute grounds for a legal abortion and what wouldn’t, based on “fetal abnormalities”. The amendment she was proposing to address this issue with the bill was voted down (Surprise, surprise).

    But besides that, IMO we should ask ourselves whether legislators even have the right to determine for women and their families that they HAVE to take on serious impairments that they personally don’t feel they can handle. In other words, although some families might be able to deal well enough with a child with really severe handicaps, I don’t see that the legislature should determine that another woman/family has to deal with the same severe handicaps if they don’t believe they can. There are emotional and definitely financial dire straits we could subject women and families to if legislation basically says, “Too bad that you’re about to give birth to a severely handicapped child who will sap all of your family’s energy, time, and financial resources. DEAL with it!”

    • KarenBailey

      right on Theresa. I work with special needs children, and love them DEARLY, but it is hard to see the burden on the families, especially low income families, and also how difficult and painful life can be for these children. “severe (or significant?) fetal abnormalities” is the true wording in the bill, and that SHOULD be the discretion of the doctor and the woman. who knows at what point someone will sue a doctor for making a medical decision in an attempt to restrict what can be considered a severe enough fetal abnormality. very very likely.

      • Scott

        Karen, i am going to ask a rhetorical question that you know the answer to – Why do you work with special needs children? If they aren’t killed in the womb, then why not just abandon them and let them live out their short miserable lives fending for themselves?

        And another question: At what point in your professional development did you gain the insight as to what is a significant life? How do you know the families have such a burden? Have they told you that they would kill them if that were allowed? The American ideal is that every life is significant. That is why we, the people, allow our money to be spent on your salary to teach and work with special needs children. They are significant, as significant as any other life. And my guess is that they are very significant and dear to those who bore them in the womb.

  • vicfox

    Thanks! I feel Rick Perry is going to get this bill passed come hell or high water. The good news is, he’s up for re-election in November 2014. Many of Wendy Davis’s supporters are encouraging her to run against him. I donated $25 to her campaign here, http://www.wendydavisforsenate.com. Or you can volunteer for or to get voters registered in the state of Texas who aren’t yet.

  • Jannimal

    I’m a med student and I’m not an authority on human development, but I’m pretty sure a fetus is viable at a little after 21 weeks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability . I am aware that 24 weeks was the time in development set in Roe v. Wade (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZO.html ****ctrl+f “24”****), but 40 years later, considering advances in medicine, 24 weeks seems pretty arbitrary. I don’t support SB5 for access reasons, but I feel that an update is necessary.

    • kristymom

      There is a fully grown human woman who was born at 22 weeks. She is in Austin wearing BLUE!

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  • pitbullgirl1965

    OT somewhat: I would love to see hospitals offering abortion services. Having separate clinics for abortion adds to the stigma of abortion and makes them an easy target. How did it happen a simple medical procedure ended up farmed out to clinics?

  • JoAnnCu

    There was a legislator who claimed that abortion patients needed to have access to on-call physicians with staffing privileges due to the problems with colonoscopies. Well if you’ve ever had a colonoscopy, you know that you are heavily sedated, on a gurney, and these are usually performed in an ASC. Well, for good reason, because they have a much higher rate of serious complications, and the mortality rate is 57 TIMES HIGHER than it is for abortions (34.5 vs. 0.6/100,000 procedures). Abortion procedures (by reliable clinics) are SO safe that one reason hospitals don’t let those doctors get hospital privileges is that they DON’T bring in ENOUGH business!! They can’t make money off of them.
    (Ref:
    http://www.asge.org/assets/0/71542/71544/56321364-c4d8-4742-8158-55b6bef2a568.pdf)

    Also don’t forget – staffing privileges is more than just getting permission to use their facility. It means that you BECOME a member of their STAFF!! You have responsibilities in the hospital, have to attend meetings and you are on call to tend to OTHER PATIENTS in rotation. AND it is not something required for OTHER doctors who perform out-patient surgical procedures, including podiatrists, plastic surgeons or oral surgeons. And it is NOT a practical requirement for these doctors – who often must travel to multiple locations, because of the scarcity of doctors willing to put up with the intimidation.

  • kristymom

    This is NOT a “good fight”! Good fights are the ones that would put you on the side of GOOD, not EVIL..Chanting “hail satan” told us EXACTLY what side you are on, and it AIN’T “GOOD”!

  • Jon

    I was going to leave a message but then realized ( slap to my forehead) I dont have a vagina and therefore it is none of my FREAKEN business

  • feeling sorrier than i already

    when irecently(yesterday) did an abortion because I am poor and can barely afford the 2 I have they made me watch the ultrasound and then show me the torn fetus after it was done. Can I sue for tht?

  • feeling sorrier than i already

    is their anything I can do?

  • feeling sorrier than i already

    pleaseemail me at durdenj74@outlook.com so I can atleast move past how violated I feel

  • feeling sorrier than i already

    I just read thru what everyones opinion was and they truly aelike assholes, everyone has one, but when it comes down to it u have to do the best u can not let someone else dictate ur life